Last week’s blog, “Unenrolled Voters – Noble, Naïve or Not Interested,” generated significant discussion - almost 150 comments, some of which were actually related to the central point of the blog. So, let me try again, only this time with more specific questions for unenrolled voters.
Keep in mind that unenrolled voters are actually the majority voting block, both in Westborough and Massachusetts. In other words, so-called “Independent” voters have the capacity to dominate elections, aided and supported by registered Democrats who account for about 37% of the vote. Only 11-12% of the registered voters are Republicans.
Here are nine specific questions for unenrolled voters:
- If unenrolled voters claim to vote for the “best candidate,” as a number of respondents confirmed last week, does that mean that they actually almost always believe that the overwhelming majority of Democrat candidates have been “the best candidate?” … For sixty years? Doesn’t this defy statistical probability?
- Do social issues matter to Unenrolled voters? While the “right to choose” is closely identified with Democrats, most Republican candidates in Massachusetts have tended to go along, so this is unlikely a “reason” to dislike Republicans. However, would “right to life” Republican candidates be viewed more favorably by unenrolled voters? How about other social issues – would Republicans be better off expressing more conservative positions than just behaving like moderate Democrats?
- Several posters claimed that they could not tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans. While this clearly points out communication failures by Republicans for some voters, what do unenrolled voters want or need to know more about to make that distinction? Or, have Democrats controlled Massachusetts for so long that Bay Staters just suffer from State-wide “Stockholm syndrome?”
- Does corruption in government make a difference to unenrolled voters? Three consecutive Democrat Speakers of the House (and others) have been found guilty of corruption in the past two decades, and the fourth is currently being investigated by the Feds according to the Boston Globe. Should Republicans conclude that the unenrolled voters approve, and willingly accept, this kind of mal-governance?
- While corruption may be a “messy” word for some people, how about the issue of personal integrity? Does integrity matter any more to unenrolled voters? The Democrats have given us many elected officials, from Senator on down, whose integrity and personal values have been, to be kind, embarrassing, if not contemptible - even criminal. And yet these politicians, and that Party, continue to be re-elected. Should we conclude that the Democrats, by running Elizabeth Warren for Senator, fully understand that unenrolled voters see lack of integrity as a non-issue?
- Speaking of Elizabeth Warren, how about the quality of candidates from both parties throughout the years? Should Republicans just simply accept that Democrat candidates are always better? If that is the case, perhaps this is why we never needed to know from where Deval Patrick came, or what made him qualified to be Governor as his entry level political position? Or what about the fact that even though the State is filled with experienced, many-termed Democrats in Boston and Washington, not one was deemed suitable to be put forward for Senator? If Warren, with no political experience, was a wiser choice, doesn’t this create even a little doubt among Independent voters about the caliber of the current list of incumbent Democrats? Unless, of course, all Republican candidates, by definition, are always inferior to all Democrats, no matter how inadequate, or lacking?
- What about the issue of taxes? Does it matter that Democrats spend, then tax, and spend and tax to essentially confiscate and redistribute personal wealth? Or, are unenrolled voters just concerned that successful Republican candidates would be far more inclined to lower spending, eliminate waste, and reduce the size of government? Is this the real problem? Considering the increasing tax bite of Federal, State and Local governments, if taxing more is the ticket to victory, let’s make sure the Republicans get the message before they get completely discouraged.
- Or is it that unenrolled voters just turn to the media and the Boston Globe for their information? We now know more about Mitt Romney at age 15 than we know or have learned about President Obama’s life story after four years. Is this really acceptable to unenrolled voters?
- Then again, perhaps it’s just the Party logo that is the issue. If so, we need instant feedback from unenrolled voters because Republicans see elephants as a highly intelligent group that does not forget, as contrasted with donkeys …
I began the last blog by asking unenrolled voters for a little help and understanding regarding their voting tendencies, and that request still stands. Please tell us what has made you think that with all your votes for Democrat candidates over the years that you have always been voting for the “best candidate.” Or, have you ever had a severe case of voter’s remorse?
Or, perhaps you just leave the voting to voters registered to the political parties.
But here’s the thing – we’ll never get a more balanced government, one that is more responsive to more people, if unenrolled Massachusetts voters think that the “best candidate” is always Democrat. History tells us differently.
It’s time to end voter malpractice. Let me hear what you think.
Arthur Hawkins
10:18 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Let me be the first...I will attempt to answer the plethora of questions one at a time.....once I wade through. Keep in mind in the future the short attention span of the populace Jim. This may be too much to handle in one blogburst.
I think I got a 'D' in Elementary Statistics but I do think of the almost 150 comments or posts to your last blog, there were maybe 6 or 8 different respondents....not a large sample and not all of them self described 'unenrolled'. Hence, how do you jump to "If unenrolled voters claim to vote for the “best candidate,” as a number of respondents confirmed last week, does that mean that they actually almost always believe that the overwhelming majority of Democrat candidates have been “the best candidate?” … For sixty years? Doesn’t this defy statistical probability?" ....continued ...
Arthur Hawkins
10:18 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
continued.......How do you know factually that most unenrolled vote Democratic? or maybe don't vote at all.......Is your sampling of Westborough respondents statistically significant? I hope the Democratic voting trends in Mass is not a robotic vote for Democrats, but Massachusetts does claim to have a high number of well educated and thoughtful persons. Maybe they do think that the Democrats have the better philosophy? Having said that, I would like to see a more balanced representation in our state government so minimally there can be a more even discussion of the issues and points of view and some real dialogue. I can see myself voting for a Republican candidate if he or she was able to espouse a way of cutting back on government intrusion and deficit spending without bashing those in legitimate need of government assistance, fiscally and educationally.
Jim Hatherley
11:23 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Thanks Arthur, and remember that the original blog was the result of my hearing from a number of people telling me that they were independent voters who voted for the best candidate. THis sounds great until you begin applying a litle logic. Statistically, registered Republicans bote for Republicans and Democrats vote for Democrats. There are three times as many Democrats, however Unenrolled voters are the majority. At this point it all begins to sound like a word problem from an advanced math class, but ultimately I conclude that either Independents are not voting in large numbers (lmaking the registered Democrats the real majority), or that enough of the Independents are voting for Democrats because they "are the best candidates".
You can debate my logic, but you can hardly debate the results. WHat percentage of the elections in Massachusetts do Republicans win? Ultimately the key lies with the unenrolled voters and their willingness to better hear what Republican candidates represent - even challenge them to be more and better. However, unless more Republicans begin getting elected in Massachusetts not much is going to change - which is obviously A-OK with those who like the way goveernment works in Massachusetts. I have listed many reasons why it does not.
SAT
1:09 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Jim, it may be that voters are simply focusing on the wrong issues. We hear a lot about the hot button social and fiscal issues that tend to divide people into Conservative, Liberal and Moderate voters, but we rarely hear about the issues of government inefficiency, corruption and patronage. Sometimes, I think our elected officials want it that way - they can focus on hot button issues to get elected, then use the power of their elective offices to enrich themselves and their friends while nobody's watching.
But, even when people try to change things, the concentration of political power in Massachusetts makes it almost impossible. There was a perfect example last election when Mary Connaughton, a certified auditor, ran for State Auditor and won almost every town in the State, yet the political machine in Boston came out at the last minute to drag enough "D" voters to the polls to elect a career Democratic politician, Suzanne Bump, even though she had an issue with not paying her own taxes in the past. And the results have been predictable - instead of an independent Auditor really chasing down waste, fraud and abuse, we have another career politician who mostly looks the other way.
So, I would suggest that the "divide and conquer" strategy really works. Distract the voters by focusing on divisive issues instead of trying to have the best Government we can.
There was a goo
Jim Hatherley
6:23 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Thanks for adding a good point SAT, but this is what I mean when I say there needs to be an end to voter malpractice if we really want a meaningful change in political direction. And, by the way, how do you feel about the Connaughton race knowing that over 50% of the voters were registered Unenrolled? If they voted, a lot of them felt that Bump was the "best candidate". If they did not vote, they allowed the Democrats to be the de facto majority. Do you see what I mean?
SAT
9:10 am on Sunday, July 22, 2012
I see what you mean, Jim. Connaughton would've been elected if more Unenrolled voted for the "best qualified" candidate. The fact that Bump won means that, despite their claims of voting for the best candidate, there are a lot of Unenrolled who just vote along "D" party lines.
arthur
8:00 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Personal integrity may be the precise reason voters remain unenrolled. I prefer the option to vote for the person, given the choices, that I believe will be best able to execute in role. I prefer not to align with a group "...whose integrity and personal values have been, to be kind, embarrassing, if not contemptible - even criminal" or the other group that tries to advance their position by pointing that out, ingnoring the fact that they are the only party to have a sitting President resign because of corruption at the highest levels of government.
Jim Hatherley
9:31 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Thank you for this comment, Arthur, but, c'mon, aren't you trying to be far too cute? Nixon was pretty dumb, no doubt, and he paid for his transgressions. However, what about President Clinton? That was an amazing lack of judgment and principle, and his lieing to Congress and the American people was clearly contemptible. And what about our former senior Senator, who got away with a fatality because the media and even his Church covered it up? So please ... a little context. If the Democrat Party is giving you what you want, you are good. If not, time to look at a different direction for the State and the Country.
Deborah Graham
8:00 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
As one of those unenrolled voters, who votes in every election, I don't vote along the "D" (or the "R", for that matter) line. There is never a "perfect" candidate, so I have to go with the one who agrees with most of my principals, and I try to find the ones who say they agree with most of the issues I care the most about. It involves a very complex mathematical formula (minus three for disagreeing with this one, plus two for this, couldn't care one way or the other about that, plus 5 for this...etc.) That way, the best candidate (for me) gets my vote. I wish everyone had a rating system, but I realize the cutest, or the one with the best smile and least mud flung at him/her, is usually the one left standing.
Jim Hatherley
8:46 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Thank you Deborah, it is great that you have a system, but do you look at the larger picture before voting Democrat? Have they, as a Party, been a responsible custodian of the public trust in Massachusetts? As to choosing the cutest etc., I fear that as much as I fear that so-called Independents just do not vote at all leaving the decision to the Democrats who do vote. What do you think?
arthur
10:17 am on Monday, July 23, 2012
Interesting you call Nixon dumb, he opened the door to China and more importantly ended the Vietnam War. How about Agnew? How about the former Governor of CT? . It doesn't take much to come up with a comparable list of Republicans that have committed offenses, so why even go there? Although I vote Republican more often than Democrat, I don't enroll with either party because of narrow minded thinkers who don't understand or respect that others can have a different opinion.
Jim Hatherley
10:55 am on Monday, July 23, 2012
Thank you (again) Arthur. I was mainly referencing Massachusetts in this blog, and here there is a history of one-way corruption which has apparently proven to be acceptable to too many voters. You brought up Nixon, whose Watergate scheme was especially dumb considering that there was no doubt regarding his re-election. His accomplishments that you mention, therefore, have been relegated to people old enough to remember. But in choosing to be Unenrolled and claiming that it's because of narrow mindedness among registered Rs and Ds suggests you viiew yourself as "noble" (vs. naive or disinterested). I am fine with that but suggest that for every "Arthur" there are probably 4-6 others to whom Unenrolled is synonymous with politically apathetic (and too proud of it). Do you agree?
David Nolta
11:40 am on Monday, July 23, 2012
I’m sure I'll regret responding, and yet the question of unenrolled voters is such an interesting one. Though here, we have nine separate questions. Among these, I find the second to be the most telling—both in its phrasing, and in the answers it suggests. In fact, it seems crucial to an understanding of the premise upon which partisan politics are ultimately based. In short, when the writer asks, “would Republicans be better off expressing more conservative positions than just behaving like moderate Democrats?”—isn’t the natural, “unenrolled” response that Republicans AND Democrats and anyone with ideas who makes a bid for public office, should express what they actually believe, and they should behave well, and in a way that illustrates the principles and positions they claim to hold? This seems to me the basic reason to remain, or to become—or, despite any official affiliation, to BE-- independent (and there’s no logo! You escape all that nonsense!).
The other questions here are not really questions at all, but rather the partisan advertising one has come to expect. (I couldn’t care less about Romney at 15; but new information from his adult career is discovered every day… And as one commenter already pointed out, political corruption is historically bi-partisan at every level—something that Republicans and Democrats have always shared pretty equally.) But that question, of expressing and behaving—that really has me thinking.
Independently.
Ed Bertorelli
1:03 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Jim- my advice to you is to tighten up your blog- you are all over the place with this-much less focused than your first column. Once again Independent/unenrolled voters like the option to vote in any primary they wish too. If these voters vote heavily in a Republican Primary they can control it- Bill Weld won the Republican Primary that way in 1990. In Mass. the Democrats have run the show in the Legislature since the 1950's and that time in power can lead to corruption -just look at the Probation Dept scandal and the three recent Democrat Speakers indicted and one in jail ! I have served as Republican Party Treasurer, Interim Chair, State Committeeman and current Town Chair and I 've seen a lot in my 45 years as a Republican- a lot of craziness on both sides. The pool of unenrolled voters contains a much higher percentage of Republican 'leaners' who elected Weld, Cellucci, and Romney along with Scott Brown. It's our job to persuade them to vote Republican. That's a tough job in Mass with public employee unions and other union forces spending millions of dollars on political lobbying,but it can be done.
Jim Hatherley
1:35 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Ed, thank you for the advice, and the benefit of your experience. In my experience looking at voting results in my town, however, I see very high percentage turnout by Republicans, strong (but lower percentage) turnout by Democrats, and pretty low turnout by the Unenrolled. My interpretation of this is that Republicans have not made a sufficient case to the Independent voters. I believe you when you indicate that more Unenrolled lean R (mainly because Republicans have 11-12% of the vote etc.), but the problem is that not enough of them vote, at least vote Republican. For some time I have been awaiting a Republican candidate who will offer a little more real-speak instead of warmed over Democrat-speak to make a serious distinction between the parties. My blog attempts to reach so-called Independents to ask them to reconsider what they expect from government, and whether the direction of (Massachusetts) government needs to change.
Jim Hatherley
1:06 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
David, thanks for this and your interesting points. Let me surprise you on my second point ... that was an honest and legitimate question. To me, too many Republicans attempt to be Democrat light so they go along with social positions because they are afraid of irritating voters. However, my analysis is that Democrats are typically unlikely to vote for Republicans anyway, so why can't legitimate Republicans emerge who have a more conservative position on the social issues - and are not afraid to posit them loud and clear (or just avoind hem altogether because they are too weak-kneed to offer the altenative to the right to choose et als)? Are Independents waiting for this kind of candidate? I am thinking that they are, after all, the Catholic Church is pretty conservative and who is speaking for them these days.
As to corruption, my response to that commenter is that I was talking about Massachusetts and this is a one-way deal ... if by default, if nothing else.
Thanks again, and I am hoping no regrets for doing so.
David Nolta
3:18 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Thank you, Jim. I really do learn from your posts and your points--especially when we disagree--which is, I know, most of the time. But maybe we agree on this: I'd like to see more Republicans refusing to water down their deeply-felt positions in order to cater to a vocal minority (say, the Fundamentalist religious groups who peddled their votes so effectively in 2000). By the same token, I'd like to see more Democrats take stands they really believe in, even at the risk of defying the polls and the media (the media having a stake in maintaining suspense, simple-minded partisanship, innuendo-based and scandal-driven animosity--in other words, in keeping all eyes on THEM).
Yellen
1:35 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
I have a clarifying question: are we talking about ALL registered voters in Massachusetts or JUST the ones that actually vote? Just because I'm registered doesn't mean I'll vote - is a record kept of how each person who actually votes is registered?
Kelly Roney
4:34 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Yes, the names of those who take a ballot to vote are a matter of public record, though not of course their actual votes. Party registration is also public record.
Kelly Roney
2:24 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Answers from a Democrat:
1. Yes, almost all the time, the Democrat is better. There are a few exceptions. I voted for Bill Weld, not John Silber.
2. I see many Republican candidates who are socially conservative and stick to their positions, but in most districts that's not popular. Of course, Mitt Romney's pro-choice positioning has turned out to have been insincere.
3. There are more conservative Democrats in Massachusetts, e.g. Steven Lynch. But for the most part, people who can't tell the difference between Rs and Ds isn't really paying attention.
4. Corruption bothers all of us, and the Speakership has been a black eye.
5. Despite the nonsensical propaganda of talk radio and the Herald, Elizabeth Warren is a person of great integrity. At worst, she has been sincerely mistaken. If a Democrat had made the fairy tale claim that he spoke regularly with kings and queens, you'd be all over him. Instead, *crickets*. Doesn't Scott Brown's puffery bother you?
6. Huh? Deval Patrick had been Assistant AG for Civil Rights, and he was a great candidate who got steadily better. Warren is also an excellent candidate from outside the usual party circles. Usually, you'd like that, but she's a nationally known threat to the Republican majority you'd like to see in the U.S. Senate with a history of accomplishing hard tasks.
Kelly Roney
4:34 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Continued...
7. You probably don't realize it, but Massachusetts state and local taxes are below the national average as a percent of income. You probably don't realize it, but Federal taxes are also low, compared to recent history. Furthermore, marginal tax rates are very very low at the high end. There's barely any progressivity left in the Federal tax code after 30 years of the very wealthy buying favors. (That, by the way, is a far more corrosive corruption, and it has been bipartisan.) When I say the very wealthy, by the way, I'm talking about the 0.001%, not the 1%.
8. I know zero about Mitt Romney at age 15, nor do I need to know about the teen Willard. On the other hand, I've heard about President Obama's childhood and adulthood - and birthplace - in incredible detail. Heck, he has two published autobiographies. If you don't know about him, you're not paying attention.
9. Elephants are highly intelligent. Too bad the Tea Party Republicans have taken over the GOP and rendered it fully the party that denies any truth that it merely doesn't like - Keynesian economics, global warming, evolution, you name it.
Donkeys are stubborn but also smart. How did we become the only party that will compromise? With Eric Cantor and Mitch McConnell (plus Rush Limbaugh and Grover Norquist) running the GOP, there's nothing left to compromise on. Obamacare was a Republican proposal in 1994, yet your party went incredibly nutty over it.
Ralph
8:21 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Not sure I buy your notion that Massachusetts State and local taxes are below the national average.
The hidden "taxes" in Massachusetts are the state fees and registrations. A recent news article quotes the Tax Foundation, in 2010 Massachusetts had the 3rd highest tax per capita behind only New York and Connecticut.
Not sure where we are now with regards to the rest of the country, but it doesn't seem like my taxes have gone down.
Kelly Roney
10:13 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Hi Ralph, given the past, my fact surprises a lot of people. But see http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=511.
For 2009, average state and local taxes for the US: 10.45%
For Massachusetts: 9.86%
You can also see that this was not the case in 1977.
Note that percentage of income and per capita are different. Massachusetts is a high income state, is a high property value state, and has a fairly robust economy for retail sales, so taxation done by percentages yields significant revenue.
Kelly Roney
4:34 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Last...
I really miss the days when Republicans made sense, as many traditional New England Republican voters still do. I disagreed with them then, but they were operating in reality, rather than the Michele Bachmann Tea Party fantasy land.
Jim Hatherley
6:20 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Kelly, thanks for your multiple posts. I was seeking to hear from Independents on this blog about their voting behavior, and whether or not they have been both paying attention to what is happening politically, and voting. I am still hopeful that I will hear from them. In your case, you are a stated Democrat, and from other posts I understand that you have a dog in the political hunt - so, I clearly understand from where you come. Your responses speak for themselves and help define the differences between the parties. My hope is that Unenrolled voters will awake to the fact that one-party government in Massachusetts has led to too much political malfeasance, waste of taxpayer dollars, and corruption. Thank you for helping make the distinction.
Jim Hatherley
7:25 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
David, your last note was well said. Thank you.
David Nolta
7:14 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
But as you've basically shown, Jim, although The Commonwealth officially has the same two-party system as the rest of the country (and even, technically, the same two-party government; otherwise, how can we explain the elections of a Weld or a Cellucci or a Romney or a Scott Brown?), it's the third party--the independents or "unenrolled", who are really no party at all--who turn out to be the biggest group. Even if that group includes a lot of non-voters. And so it seems fair to interpret the fact that a significant (THE significant) number of unenrolled voters vote for Democrats, as a very real message backing up much of what Kelly said. In other words, the longstanding Democratic dominance of Commonwealth politics isn't necessarily a sign of apathy or inertia; it is more likely a precise reflection of the progressive tendencies of a group that is nevertheless never to be taken for granted. That is part of a very long tradition in Massachusetts. And that seems like a great thing to me.
Jim Hatherley
9:21 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
David, thanks again. Look, how can any credible Republican lay claim to positive results over the past 60 years? Sure we have had a few wins, but then again so didn't Wyle Coyote - and in the end both have had a history of ending up on the wrong side of Acme Dynamite. What I am attempting to (honestly) learn is how informed this majority of Independent voters is. When I asked if they felt "noble, or were naive or just not interested," it was not to be a wise guy as you had surmised, but to begin to understand what they are actually thinking. Judging from the reactions coming most strenuously from Democrats (not my target here), we are not learning a lot about them yet. Therefore, to say that they don't vote because they are so satisfied with Democrat government is perhaps giving this group too much credit, don't you think? And, you know that I do not think that this is a great thing at all, for all the reasons I stated in the blog (but you already knew that).
Amy Walton
8:35 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
I find myself a bit insulted by what seems to be Jim's assumption here (based on two blog articles and responses to many comments and phrasing and re-phrasing of questions) that IF I was really paying attention and IF I was really doing my research, then when I vote for my choice of "the best candidate", I would be voting for a Republican.
I do the research, I read about the candidates' positions and beliefs (and hope they are being straightforward and honest about those positions and beliefs), then I vote according to MY criteria, for the candidate I think is the best one, the one most likely to attempt to move the country (or state or town) in the directions I believe are most important.
As it turns out, based on my values and my beliefs about what is most important, most often my vote is for a Democrat. But not always.
David, thank you for this comment - "In other words, the longstanding Democratic dominance of Commonwealth politics isn't necessarily a sign of apathy or inertia; it is more likely a precise reflection of the progressive tendencies of a group that is nevertheless never to be taken for granted."
I completely agree.
Ed Bertorelli
8:21 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Jim and David- one of the points not mentioned is the steep decline in the percentage of registered Democrats in the last two decades-it's actually larger that the total percent of Republicans- a lot has to do with many New Deal Dems passing on and the next generation having a different perspective on local and state issues. We are at a point where the party matters less than the person.
Jim Hatherley
9:58 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Ed, thanks for adding this. I think that you are helping me make my point about Unenrolled voters. A small percentage of unenrolled completely believe they are "noble," voting for the "best candidate" etc. However, for the most part I see the rising trend of unenrolled voters as a growing sense of apathy and disinterest among voters, and a mournful naivete that while they may want to disengage from the parties and politics, Parties still do matter because each has a different philosophy of governance. In other words, while the Democrat Party has declined in recent decades they remain the de facto majority party because unenrolled voters do not insist on better, more efficient government in Massachusetts.
arthur
8:21 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Can anyone explain why party registration is listed on the ballot list when you vote? Seems an unnecessary piece of information to determine if a person has a right to cast a ballot.
Jim Hatherley
9:58 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Arthur, I do not believe that this has anything to do with your "right" to vote. It's just information that is appended to your registration. However, in primaries, your party affiliation dictates which ballot you will receive. Can we get back on focus regarding the blog? I want to hear more from Unenrolled voters and if they are satisfied with the direction of government in Massachusetts.
arthur
4:44 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Mickey, thanks - understandable during a primary however not necessary for a general election. Jim - you keep missing the point that people are unenrolled because they're not happy with either option. You are making an assumption that there are only two choices, Republican or Democrat. The unenrolled message is if you want my vote, you need to earn it. Gone are they days of blind allegiance to a brand whether it's politics or automobiles. A strategy based on Republicans are better than Democrats because they have fewer convictions isn't changing anyones mind. I wouldn't affiliate with a political party any sooner than I would commit to buying cars from one company. You want the business, do something to earn it beside whining about how nobody is paying attention.
Jim Hatherley
5:58 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Arthur, thanks for this but with all due respect I do not think I am missing my own point. In 2012 "earning" your vote has become little more than offering "free stuff" to whatever so-called victim's group or even wannabe victim's group is in front of the candidate. Earning your vote has become as disingenuous as saying one thing, doing another, then later telling the voters that they are not bright enough to understand what they were saying.
My original proposition was that it is great if you are one of the so-called Independent voters who actually reads and makes informed choices ... very noble in fact. However, you need to understand how the Party system works before thinking that - with few exceptions - your so-called "best candidate" is ever going to do much more that vote the way they are told by the Party leadership.
Hopefully you do not think that I am whining as much as warning and wanting Unenrolled voters to lose their apathy and get into the process of electing a government that is significantly better than we have been experiencing. Does this make my point clearer for you? Thanks again - love the posts.
Dave Lenane
8:35 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Jim, I'm a registered Republican (still upset that Charlie Baker lost) but I always try to vote for the best person and not the best party! I think people are just disenfranchised with politics in general. I know I honestly don't feel that my vote does a lot of good!
Jim Hatherley
9:01 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Dave, thank you for this comment. While I understand why you can feel that your votes have not done a lot of good (as a fellow Republican), I need to ask do you think that people are disenfranchised with politics?
Kim Poness
8:35 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
@Jim - with all due respect (and I'm not being sarcastic) - I feel as if you're insulting the so-called (and that does come across as condescending) independent voters by saying you'd like us to lose our apathy. The unenrolled voters I know, including myself, are not apathetic. A few of us have posted here, but you continue to label us in that way. No matter what any of us say, you have your viewpoint and will apparently continue to ignore our obvious LACK of apathy. Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to accomplish - I do hope you find someone who will prove your point, but it doesn't seem like it's going to be here. All the best to you.
Jim Hatherley
9:01 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Kim, thank you once again for commenting. I understand your annoyance with my proposition. Of course, this is the way it always works when those who are the exceptions become irritated when they get clumped in with the mass. But, there is a point here and I suspect that as informed as you may be that you wonder how many people have taken the time to become so well informed. All you have to do is to look at the percentage of unenrolled voters who actually vote. In my town if can be embarrassingly low, especially compared with registered Rs and Ds. When the majority of registered voters are not (as a group) taking more responsibility in determining the kind of government the process fails and we get what we get. Thanks again ... you have added to the dialogue, even with your nicely phrased disagreement.
Jim Hatherley
9:01 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Amy, thanks for posting, and I understand. My response to you is the same that I gave to David earlier and Kim just a few minutes ago. I might also add that I particularly enjoy disagreements. As I said at several times last week, none of us learns anything if everyone agrees with what I write. I can get that at my Town Committee meetings. My contribution to the broader electorate, however, is to challenge their thinking. It appears that I am succeeding at some level. Thanks again for speaking up.
Kelly Roney
9:03 am on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
For one thing, your turnout numbers are wrong. In 2008, Westborough had 6650 unenrolled voters, 3135 Ds, and 2127 Rs. About 9000 votes were cast for President (75% turnout), so even if all the Ds and Rs voted (highly unlikely), 56% of unenrolled voters voted, not 40%.
In fact, in affluent suburban towns, voter engagement is high. Sure, many voters aren't engaged year round the way you and I are on opposite sides, but they eventually settle on a candidate.
The fact that they're late to decide is why candidates compete for their attention. Besides, you should know that high turnout is good for Democrats.
Why don't Rs win more often? Simply, Massachusetts leads the nation in a huge number of categories.
Forbes puts our quality of life as number 1. First! Despite the weather.
Our public schools are the best in the country, and our population is highly educated. Ed Reform worked. The extra money that Ds wanted to spend (and traditional moderate New England Rs, too)? It worked.
Consequently, we have an innovation economy that leads the country and the world in many areas of software, biotech, water resources, green energy, and pretty much any area that requires entrepreneurship and brainpower. Our unemployment rate is 2 points lower than the nation's, though 4% would be better, and we have high incomes.
Nearly everyone has health insurance.
Crime is low. Families are stable.
Republicans hope this doesn't spread, because our state government works.
FindBalance
1:17 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
If Ed Reform worked, and MA has the best public schools in the country (with which I agree, and add that it is # 3 and 6 in Math and Science in the world, as measured by the 2007 International TIMSS test), then why did Gov Partrick in his first campaign say that MA Ed needed serious reform, which he delivered by cramming through in 2009/2010 that MA now will comply with Federal Education Guidelines (which is also a step in the direction to eliminate MCAS), thereby eliminating our successful Ed Reform?
You give state govt too much credit for the quality of life in MA - I see excessive spending, buidling a welfare state, policies that support govt creating jobs, muscling in on private industry (have you heard the MA Connector ads encouraging small business to buy "low cost" Health Insurance through the state? What will happen to the private (especially small) companies that already provide that service? And how will the state achieve "low cost" for the buyers? Sure, almost everyone has health insurance, but at what cost and to whom), selective enforcement of our laws, etc., all as leading to a medium to long term collapse of our state. But sleep well tonight, because for now you believe the stats are on your side.
Jim Hatherley
11:13 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Kelly, thanks again. Everyone votes in Presidential elections. 85% of the voters are expected to vote this year. Check out the gubernatorial election stats, or, even worse, the local elections. In the past 3 years only 7% of the voters cast a ballot in a local election (while the property taxes were doubling over a 10 year period).
Now, I am a native Bay Stater, with more than a vested interest in MA. However (within this post context and your prior), if MA were doing so well, why did we lose population in the prior decade? Why do so many of our wealthier tax payers leave (along with those from NY, NJ, CA, IL) to no income tax states like TX, TN, FL and NH? And, if Massachusetts was doing so well, why was there the need to raise the sales tax by 25% three years ago, and add a liquor tax? And, why have property taxes doubled in communities across the State? Because the Feds and the State are too busy paying off for "free stuff" and have simply become confiscate and redistribute agencies. We all deserve better.
arthur
9:03 am on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Jim - "In 2012 "earning" your vote has become little more than offering "free stuff" to whatever so-called victim's group or even wannabe victim's group is in front of the candidate. Earning your vote has become as disingenuous as saying one thing, doing another, then later telling the voters that they are not bright enough to understand what they were saying."
How is this convincing anyone to become an enrolled voter? Earning my vote is about leadership, putting someone outfront that will drive results and do the right thing v following party instruction. Earning my vote isn't about lip service. This is exactly why people do not become enrolled voters. Essentially your message says that elected roles are puppets to the party management.
Jim Hatherley
7:04 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Arthur, thanks again, and you make a good point. However, here's the real deal in the real world ... There is NO Unenrolled Party. There is no candidate of the unenrolled. So, instead we have Party candidates who know that the unenrolled voters who actually vote must vote for someone ... so they pander and promise. You would think that people would have caught on by now that every promise has a cost - the more the promises, the greater the cost. And, who gets the most promises? The people who are so-called victims and not paying into the commonweal. We must get beyond this because the Country is so broke that future generations are already grossly compromised. Heck, Obama called Bush unpatriotic in 2008 as a candidate for running up a debt that is significantly lower than he has already amassed in less than half the time.
I agree with you about leadership by the way. America is not a Country of blamers. We are a Country where people aspire to greatness.
Annie Kay
3:01 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Okay, let me start by saying if you were a lawyer, you would be leading the witness. Now I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just saying that the way you pose the questions in the article have a very "This way is good, that way is bad" feel to them. I think there may be a better way to ask to get real answers.
I posted on your other article but I feel as though I need to clarify why I don't personally like either party. Let me start with Democrats. Yes, SOME have been corrupt. I don't like the taxes. I don't like some of the communistic mindsets. I don't like the "Turn a blind eye" mindset to social issues. And I don't like how Democrats preach change and then things stay the same.
Now Republicans:
I don't like their stance on most social issues. I am pro-choice, pro-gay marriage. I don't like some of the religious undertones. I don't believe that the church has any business in my personal, athiest, life. I don't like the way many of the weathier republicans make money. I don't like how some are corrupt.
But really, I don't like how both sides can't get their acts together, stuff their pride, and compromise. We're not going to move foward if we have two out-dated parties that can't give a little. Thats why I am unenrolled.
Stephen Pohl
6:22 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
I am unenrolled, and I've been following this blog for some time. I totally agree with Annie, especially, about 'leading the witness'... that was my first reaction when this started, and I believe the blog was meant to be that way.
Off topic, but today the Senate passed a bill to extent tax cuts for the middle class. It will be interesting to see if the House (read R's) will follow suit.
The R's simply don't care about me.
Jim Hatherley
6:59 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Stephen and Annie, thank you for respoding. But, please put your hurt feelings away. C'mon, I am wriiting a blog and being provocative to elicit a response and a dialogue. As Annie notes, a lot of the points that I raised are true. Others we can discuss. I am good with that. As to the R's not caring about you, Stephen, I don't think that the Democrats have been so good either, institutionalizing dependency on government. HNow cynical a way to create a dependent voting bloc by removing the dignity people, labeling them "victim's groups" etc. 50 Years ago it was 6% of the population needing temporary assistance to get them past the hard times. Today, according to O'Reilly's report it is 35% . This is NOT good. The debate in Washington is about what America wants the America of the future to look like ... If you think we're headed in the right direction you've got your President, your Governor and your Party. Pretty simple ... but please understand the purpose of the blog. THat you are (both) showing a little emotion here indicates that you care enough to debate. This is a very good thing. Or isn't it?
Annie Kay
2:37 pm on Thursday, July 26, 2012
It's fine to debate, but as anyone who has ever used the scientific meathod knows, you can't be biased when asking questions if you want to get unbiased results. I am not emotional about your beliefs, I may not agree with all of them but I'm not going to be bothered by a diffrence in opinion. As I expect the same from everyone else here. Personally, and it's fine if you disagree, I think that the way you pose the questions sparks more of a debate about policies and "Who's right, who's wrong" than it does answer your questions. You don't have to like Democrats, but you should give credit where credit is due. That's all I'm trying to say here.
Ed Bertorelli
11:13 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Jim you are a real sport for keeping the dialogue going- I think Annie hits on a real sub-text among voters and that is the Libertarian streak- not necessarily connected with Ron Paul-- but an aversion to organized religion and to treating big government as religion substitute as many in Mass do.
Jim Hatherley
11:31 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Thank you, Ed. You know that if you want to be heard, you have to stand up and even occasionally face the music. So far it has been all good (I hope). As to Annie, I agree that she expresses the libertarian philosophy, but in the real world this is headed nowhere - not because the thoughts are bad, but because 3rd party candidates do not appeal to other than the precious few. Their best ideas are ultimately co-opted by one of the Parties. The best these candidates can become is spoilers, which we have seen.
SAT
8:58 am on Thursday, July 26, 2012
Here's some more evidence that voting for "the best candidate" doesn't necessarily mean getting the "best government":
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220726conflict_eyed_in_post_for_relative_of_bump/
Jim Hatherley
2:37 pm on Thursday, July 26, 2012
Thanks, SAT, Howie Carr has made a living connecting the cronyism dots. However, when one Party governs, this is the kind of government you get.
FindBalance
5:08 pm on Thursday, July 26, 2012
SAT - ironic that you picked Suzanne Bump as the example of voting for "the best candidate". Mary Connaughton was by far the best choice - for many reasons - to the point that the Globe even endorsed her and called an ad by Bump's campaign as completey false. So I got a chuckle out of your choice. :-)
What I think your example does show, is that when you pick the worst candidate, you get the worst govt.
arthur
8:58 am on Thursday, July 26, 2012
Jim - if the candidates pander and make empty promises then the party is condoning v forcing more integrity in the candidates. You ask why there are unenrolled voters, why would you align with an organization that openly supports that behaviour? You make many good points but specifically on converting unenrolled voters, there is nothing in the argument to convince unenrolled to enroll. If Republicans are going to be the group that aspires to greatness, then its going to take leadership, integrity and the party needs to follow the candidate, not the other way around.
Jim Hatherley
2:37 pm on Thursday, July 26, 2012
You know Arthur (and thanks again), I agree with you. Note the title of this blog, "...Are Democrats Better?" This is clearly a tongue in cheek commentary that for over 60 years Masschusetts has essentially had one party government, ergo, Democrat candidates must be better. This is clearly bogus as the results over time have shown, and what the body of the blog concerns. And yet, why has this happened? And how can it change? We need Republican candidates to make their case, and we need (primarily) Unenrolled voters to listen more and look at government within the broader context of where we are, where we're headed, and what we can afford.
This takes leadership, but, as I wrote in my own published book on leadership ("Daring To Be Different"), to be a leader, a leader must have followers. In short, we need more voters to be more demanding and we need more voter involvement, which is more expansive than just reacting to a negative political attack ad and voting. Ergo, when a Republican leader emerges ready to take on the big issues without the pandering and the give-aways and the free stuff, we need more voters to resist the negatives from the Boston Globe, the Public Union workers etc. and see if they really can make a difference by leading in a different direction.
Jim Hatherley
3:12 pm on Thursday, July 26, 2012
Annie, I really appreciate your comments and welcome your willingness to spar a bit. However, let me be very up front about all of this. I am identified with a photo and the title of Chair of the Westborough Town Committee. I was asked by the Patch to write a Republican blog to balance things out. It's within this capacity that I am sharing some points of view. My purpose is to persuade those who are on the fence, or at least willing to hear the Republican perspective, that both the Country and this State are headed down the wrong track with the Democrats. Within this context I admit to an ideological bias - even though it is clearly implied through my identification (vs. some sort of nom de plume writing that is aimed at irritating more than dialoging). I hope you find this (and me) reasonable. In the meantime, please keep posting because you are the very person with whom I am seeking to communicate. I hope you share the blogs with your friends as well. All the best.
FindBalance
6:42 pm on Thursday, July 26, 2012
Steven Pohl – in response to your statement:
"Off topic, but today the Senate passed a bill to extent tax cuts for the middle class. It will be interesting to see if the House (read R's) will follow suit.
The R's simply don't care about me."
I disagree with your characterization that R's don't care about you if they don't vote for extending tax cuts for the middle class (they want the middle class *and* everyone else to keep the tax cuts – they care about everyone!).
If the extension for the middle class is not accompanied by corresponding extension for “the wealthy”, then the wealthy (which includes small business owners, who create 75% of jobs in America) surely will not add jobs to the economy when their taxes go up, and may eliminate more jobs. How does this indicate R’s care for you? They want an economic environment where more jobs are created for people who do not have them, and keep jobs for people who do have one. If you do not want to also extend the tax cuts to the job creators, you are affecting other middle class people because more jobs won’t be created for them to be employed, or possibly even eliminate jobs for other middle class people, even your own job – whomever would lose their job because of this would ironically get no tax savings from an extension of the tax cuts to only the middle class. With all due respect, if you support this, should you be characterized as not caring for the middle class other than yourself?
Concerned Citizen
8:38 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Great points, FindBalance. Many small businesses earn between $250,000 and $500,000 a year. They will be greatly impacted by not extending the tax cuts to people earning over $250,000. It will cause cutbacks in their staff and inventory and will certainly stifle their growth. It will be a win for no one.
Concerned Citizen
8:38 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Jim,
As a lifelong MA resident, I was born into a Democrat family and voted "D" robotically for many years. However, during Ronald Reagan's second term, I realized what a good president he was. I also started to notice how negative and condescending NPR (of which I was a daily listener) had become in their reporting of anyone who wasn't a liberal. Additionally, I became increasingly embarrassed by Ted Kennedy's drunken carousing in Washington. I saw the Democrat Party going downhill and no longer representing my ethics and values and decided to leave. I became unenrolled and started voting mostly Republican. I have come full circle and am now a Republican. The Republican Party isn't perfect, but overall, it represents what I believe in as a hard-working American who loves this country.
Jim Hatherley
9:44 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Thanks for adding your comments, Concerned Citizen - they add a little balance to previous remarks. And, thank you for your restraint by restricting your disappointment to just the former Senior Senator's antics. You could have mentioned so many others, including the Finger-wagger-in-Chief, and a number of Bay State Reps who have been a National embarrassment. Still, the larger point is what values to we expect from our elected officials, and is what we are getting just what we the people deserve, or can we do better by heading in a different direction. Hopefully others will be persuaded to follow in your footsteps. All the best.